Carl Sargeant Inquest: Interviews with First Minister about allegations had triggered a downturn in the Deeside politician's mood

This morning, Leslie Thomas QC, representing Mr Sargeant’s family, asked for the interviews with the First Minister Carwyn Jones to be played at the hearing in order that they be properly recorded in evidence.

John Gittins, coroner for North Wales (East and Central), heard from Mr Thomas that they had acted as a catalyst or trigger in causing a downturn in his mood.

The coroner agreed the interviews should be put into the record.

Former AM Leighton Andrews

During the first day of the inquest in Ruthin yesterday, former Assembly Member Leighton Andrews said he felt interviews given by the First Minister the day before the death of Mr Sargeant had played a role in affecting his state of mind.

Professor Andrews said the interviews invited people to conclude that allegations made against Mr Sargeant "were incidents rather than allegations".

Today, the inquest heard evidence from Ken Skates AM, who said that, although Mr Sargeant had never explicitly told him of his difficulties, he had come to believe his emotional health was not right.

Mr Skates added: "I have suffered with depression and anxiety myself. Carl started to take an interest asking me what counselling and medications I had been using.

"I thought at the time that he was trying to understand how I coped."

Steven Jones, former special advisor to Carwyn Jones as well as a friend and part time researcher to Mr Sargeant, provided a statement in which he said he spoke with Carl Sargeant after his sacking.

In the statement, he said: "He said he had been sacked due to allegations of inappropriate conduct against him by women.

"He said there was no truth in it."

According to Mr Jones, Carl Sargeant had said he'd been asked by the First Minister not to 'go public' about his sacking and said it would be handled over the weekend.

The inquest heard from Imelda Francombe, senior private secretary in the Welsh Government, who worked with Mr Sargeant from 2016.

Mrs Francombe said: "He was very easy to work with. In my experience Carl was a relaxed character."

According to Mrs Francombe, in late 2016 or early 2017 Mr Sargeant did tell her he had been feeling blue, and that he sometimes did feel this way.

He told her he was supposed to be taking tablets for the feelings, but that he had not been taking them 'of late'.

Mrs Francombe kept this confidential until a meeting with her line manager Peter Greening, who told her he felt Mr Sargeant's diary looked 'a bit light'.

It was at this point she told Mr Greening that she felt Mr Sargeant sometimes struggled and got 'down'.

In her conversation with Mr Greening she said she was inferring that Mr Sargeant was unwell in terms of his mental health and she did this because she did not want a negative impression of Mr Sargeant to be held, she explained.

Describing Mr Greening's comment about the diary, she added: "I took it to mean Carl could be taking on more engagements but there is more to a minister's job than a diary."

Mr Greening, head of the Cabinet Division, told the inquest that he did feel the diary was ‘light’ but that when Mrs Francombe had explained about Mr Sargeant struggling it had concerned him and he had not raised the issue of the diary again.

However he said he felt he was unable to take further action without breaking the confidence Mr Sargeant had shown in Mrs Francombe, who had then shared the information with himself privately.

He did not share the information about Mr Sargeant's mental health with the First Minister or anyone else, Mr Greening told the hearing.

Mr Greening added he was not aware of the circumstances surrounding Mr Sargeant's departure from post until afterwards.

He agreed with the coroner that it made sense that the media would take significant interest in a cabinet minister leaving the post in circumstances such as Mr Sargeant's.

Mr Gittins asked him about his decision not to share the information about Mr Sargeant's mental health once the details of the cabinet reshuffle were known to him.

He said: "I still didn't think it was appropriate to break that confidence.

"That was a judgement call I made and I think it was the right one at the time. With the benefit of hindsight, I might have made a different decision."

Sophie Howe

The coroner also accepted an application to interrogate the phone records of Sophie Howe, who had given evidence on Monday, in order to gain information about an unknown number.

Making the application, Cathryn McGahey, representing the First Minister, referred to phone records showing the calls made and received by Mr Sargeant prior to his death.

She said: "We have the evidence of Sophie Howe who was certain she had calls [with him] lasting minutes but we have only one at 8.42am between her and Carl Sargeant lasting 11 seconds.

"Mr Sargeant must have called Mrs Howe from the phone we can't identify. It seems overwhelmingly likely there’s a missing phone."

The hearing continues this afternoon.